1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:00,860 2 00:00:00,860 --> 00:00:06,850 (upbeat music) 3 00:00:06,850 --> 00:00:46,090 4 00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:51,080 - The Gene and Dave Show. 5 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,590 - This program was made possible from the support 6 00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:56,210 of VSA Texas 7 00:00:56,210 --> 00:00:57,750 and Amerigroup. 8 00:00:57,750 --> 00:00:59,500 (upbeat music) 9 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,340 ♪ Rise ♪ 10 00:01:00,340 --> 00:01:02,840 ♪ Until you're standing tall ♪ 11 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:08,830 ♪ You're going to need a solution ♪ 12 00:01:08,830 --> 00:01:11,440 13 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,200 - Rise up Amerigroup. 14 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,220 (rooster crowing) 15 00:01:21,220 --> 00:01:27,050 - We're here today at AT&T with Doctor Aaron Bangor. 16 00:01:27,050 --> 00:01:29,590 Aaron, you are a, 17 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:31,940 would it be safe to say the head of CATO? 18 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:34,030 - I'm not the head of all of CATO. 19 00:01:34,030 --> 00:01:38,840 I'm the overall technical lead for the organization but 20 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,260 John Burnse who's the assistant vice-president, 21 00:01:44,260 --> 00:01:47,870 is the head of all of the CATO organization. 22 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:49,270 He's based in Dallas. 23 00:01:49,270 --> 00:01:52,790 - Okay, what is CATO 24 00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:55,760 and how has it evolved over the years? 25 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,440 - Sure, so 26 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,510 CATO is 27 00:01:59,510 --> 00:02:03,030 our shorthand internally with the company 28 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:08,610 for the AT&T Corporate Accessibility Technology Office and 29 00:02:08,610 --> 00:02:12,000 we were started about five years ago, 30 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,070 last month five years ago, 31 00:02:14,070 --> 00:02:18,560 really to do a better job of addressing accessibility 32 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,690 of technology across the entire AT&T company. 33 00:02:22,690 --> 00:02:27,500 So we have grown as a company from being 34 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:29,180 a local phone company, 35 00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:32,020 providing local phone service. 36 00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:34,580 We're now a large provider of broadband 37 00:02:34,580 --> 00:02:38,590 and internet services, obviously wireless phone services 38 00:02:38,590 --> 00:02:41,180 and data and messaging and so forth 39 00:02:41,180 --> 00:02:44,310 and very large TV service provider. 40 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:45,790 Not only with our U-verse service, 41 00:02:45,790 --> 00:02:50,080 but with the acquisition of DirecTV a couple years ago. 42 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:56,070 So, that's a wide variety of consumer technologies, 43 00:02:56,070 --> 00:03:00,230 and we're also a very large business services provider. 44 00:03:00,230 --> 00:03:06,220 So, it became more and more unwieldily on how do you, 45 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:07,450 46 00:03:07,450 --> 00:03:10,150 very efficiently, but also make sure 47 00:03:10,150 --> 00:03:13,460 that you get the right outcomes with accessibility, 48 00:03:13,460 --> 00:03:15,050 sort of doing it ad hoc, 49 00:03:15,050 --> 00:03:18,310 letting everybody kind of do it their own way. 50 00:03:18,310 --> 00:03:22,130 And so in 2012, we did a couple 51 00:03:22,130 --> 00:03:24,980 things that really helped to change 52 00:03:24,980 --> 00:03:27,760 the culture within AT&T around accessibility. 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,290 One was we appointed our first ever 54 00:03:30,290 --> 00:03:35,760 Chief Accessibility Officer to really be the head 55 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,410 and the high level advocate within the company 56 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:41,160 around accessibility. 57 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,720 - Would this be your world wide operations? 58 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,510 - The Chief Accessibility Officer covers all of AT&T, 59 00:03:46,510 --> 00:03:51,010 so all products and services, consumer and business 60 00:03:51,010 --> 00:03:53,800 our line wireless and so forth. 61 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,170 And the second thing we did is created our 62 00:03:57,170 --> 00:04:01,390 corporate accessible technology office, or CATO for short. 63 00:04:01,390 --> 00:04:08,160 And, we staff that primarily with two types of folks 64 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,770 that really drew on scales that AT&T has, 65 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:15,780 and what our business units within the company 66 00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:18,510 the various divisions and silos needed. 67 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:21,970 One was folks with a strong process 68 00:04:21,970 --> 00:04:24,360 and compliance background. 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,100 When you have a company of over 250,000 people, 70 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:31,030 how do you establish a program that works 71 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:33,640 for not only the size of that company 72 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,990 but also the diversity of the product and services. 73 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:39,760 And we had a lot of good resources 74 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,800 within the company to draw on. 75 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,780 And then, the technical expertise, 76 00:04:43,780 --> 00:04:46,540 how, you know, when a project team says, 77 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:47,930 I've got an app to develop, 78 00:04:47,930 --> 00:04:52,110 how do I make that accessible to a screen reader user? 79 00:04:52,110 --> 00:04:53,500 I'm building an IVR, 80 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:56,300 which is an interactive voice response system. 81 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:58,250 When you call customer care and it's, 82 00:04:58,250 --> 00:05:00,530 press one for this, or two for that, 83 00:05:00,530 --> 00:05:01,800 how do you make sure those systems 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,440 are usable by somebody with limited mobility 85 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,950 or cognitive or hearing disabilities? 86 00:05:07,950 --> 00:05:12,250 Websites and hardware, 87 00:05:12,250 --> 00:05:16,250 emails, PDF's, text messages, 88 00:05:16,250 --> 00:05:21,610 the list of different types of technologies 89 00:05:21,610 --> 00:05:24,270 that we had to work on is quite great, 90 00:05:24,270 --> 00:05:27,710 and so there's not really a place 91 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:29,370 where you can go to find somebody 92 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:31,890 that has that diversity of skills, 93 00:05:31,890 --> 00:05:34,570 who knows how product development works, 94 00:05:34,570 --> 00:05:37,260 and how you work with a project team. 95 00:05:37,260 --> 00:05:40,380 The accessibility skills for more than just websites, 96 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:43,230 but for anything that might be needed. 97 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:47,470 And really to understand the technology we're in, 98 00:05:47,470 --> 00:05:50,730 so knowing how TV services work, 99 00:05:50,730 --> 00:05:54,500 whether it's in a traditional cable box set, 100 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:58,000 top box arrangement, or on your mobile device. 101 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,630 How telephone services work, internet services work. 102 00:06:00,630 --> 00:06:03,410 So, finding somebody with a combination 103 00:06:03,410 --> 00:06:07,040 of those skills is challenging if not impossible. 104 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:13,320 So we found people that had some of those skills 105 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,280 and we got them together here in Austin, 106 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:20,700 as well as some folks from some other parts of the company, 107 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:23,840 in other parts of the United States. 108 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:26,580 So, Saint Louis and Washington DC, 109 00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:30,530 and Atlanta, and so forth, and said, 110 00:06:30,530 --> 00:06:33,610 if you know how to develop products and services, 111 00:06:33,610 --> 00:06:35,600 you're going to teach the accessibility experts how that works 112 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,670 and how you integrate accessibility 113 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:43,070 into a large corporate product lifecycle management. 114 00:06:43,070 --> 00:06:46,520 If you know about wireless technologies 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,600 and how the cell gene macro cellular network works, 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,030 you're going to teach the accessibility folks 117 00:06:53,030 --> 00:06:54,770 and the product development folks that 118 00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:56,120 and while they teach you the accessibility 119 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,790 of product development. 120 00:06:57,790 --> 00:07:00,130 It was a great collaboration. 121 00:07:00,130 --> 00:07:05,460 A lot of people that were willing to learn and grow, 122 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:07,530 and all toward a common purpose, 123 00:07:07,530 --> 00:07:12,400 which is to really teach product development teams 124 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,260 across the company, literally thousands. 125 00:07:15,260 --> 00:07:17,460 That first year, we probably looked at 126 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:19,600 somewhere around 10,000 projects, 127 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,530 to give you an idea of the scale. 128 00:07:21,530 --> 00:07:22,560 - Wow. 129 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,470 - And how to get an idea right off the top. 130 00:07:25,470 --> 00:07:28,110 Does this have accessibly implications? 131 00:07:28,110 --> 00:07:30,110 For running a new fiberoptic cable 132 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:35,860 to a cell tower in remote west Texas, 133 00:07:35,860 --> 00:07:39,470 we're not really worried about the accessibility of that. 134 00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:42,700 But, you know, if it's an update to AT&T.com, 135 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:47,100 or my AT&T app, or customer service lines, 136 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,720 you know, that obviously has got to get huge priority. 137 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,970 - Can you give us some examples specifically 138 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:56,900 of things you do to help the consumer, 139 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:59,570 someone with a disability? 140 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:04,020 - Certainly, I mean I think we try to be, 141 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:07,860 not on purpose, but we try to be fairly boring 142 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:10,180 about how this gets done, 143 00:08:10,180 --> 00:08:14,110 because the benefits, what we're looking for, 144 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:19,850 is that the products and services AT&T offers 145 00:08:19,850 --> 00:08:22,750 will be accessible to our customers with disabilities. 146 00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:26,070 So, you know, that is working through thousands 147 00:08:26,070 --> 00:08:28,720 of projects that are updating AT&T.com 148 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,740 It's not, a whole overhaul of the entire website, 149 00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:38,170 but anytime a page changes, how do we make sure that, 150 00:08:38,170 --> 00:08:41,330 that when they're updating text on that field 151 00:08:41,330 --> 00:08:44,090 that it meets readability guidelines 152 00:08:44,090 --> 00:08:46,370 for plain language so that it's easy to understand 153 00:08:46,370 --> 00:08:51,650 for somebody with limited cognitive or language skills? 154 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:55,230 How do we make sure that there's a skip navigation 155 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:57,820 on there for somebody using a screen reader? 156 00:08:57,820 --> 00:09:00,000 If there are videos on there describing 157 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,080 how to use one of our products and service 158 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,030 to make sure that it's captioned. 159 00:09:04,030 --> 00:09:06,940 And if there's voice over to narration to that video, 160 00:09:06,940 --> 00:09:10,260 that it doesn't just say push the button here, 161 00:09:10,260 --> 00:09:12,510 and there might have been an arrow in the video, 162 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:14,180 but for somebody whose blind can't see that, 163 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:15,870 to describe what is the button that's there. 164 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:19,350 So, actually a lot of the work 165 00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:21,840 are pretty straight forward things, 166 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,580 like following what the project team's saying. 167 00:09:24,580 --> 00:09:26,310 Do you know what you need to do for this? 168 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:28,300 You're updating a mobile app. 169 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,180 Do you understand if it's for Android, 170 00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:34,290 you know, what Googles accessibility standards are, 171 00:09:34,290 --> 00:09:36,280 or for developing android apps, 172 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,140 or the Apple accessibility standards 173 00:09:38,140 --> 00:09:40,240 for IOS apps and so forth. 174 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,420 - I got to confess to you, I'm not your brightest bulb 175 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:46,830 in the knife drawer. 176 00:09:46,830 --> 00:09:51,150 So, although I have a strong interest in technology, 177 00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:54,030 I don't use a cell phone myself, 178 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:56,560 I just haven't figured out how to do it, 179 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:58,600 given I can't use my fingers. 180 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,640 But, I try to keep up with what's happening. 181 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:08,730 And I know this, so many people out there use AT&T products, 182 00:10:08,730 --> 00:10:12,450 every single day, and they just don't realize 183 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,840 all that work and effort you put in 184 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,210 to make it accessible to everybody. 185 00:10:19,210 --> 00:10:22,910 I think I even read somewhere that the AT&T logo 186 00:10:22,910 --> 00:10:27,830 was redone so the contrast was greater. 187 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:31,530 - Yeah, we've had a very successful partnership 188 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:33,860 with our brand team. 189 00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:35,890 When we first approached them about 190 00:10:35,890 --> 00:10:38,320 the color choices they were using, 191 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,330 even beyond the globe, but just the colors on the website, 192 00:10:41,330 --> 00:10:43,030 you know, the blue and the orange, 193 00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:45,830 and accent colors like green and so forth, 194 00:10:45,830 --> 00:10:47,780 you know, we have been given the impression 195 00:10:47,780 --> 00:10:49,560 by people who had worked with brand before, 196 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,540 I was like, oh they're a bunch of artists 197 00:10:51,540 --> 00:10:52,900 who really have a vision, 198 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:54,880 and it's really hard to talk to them. 199 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,280 But we've found the opposite to be true. 200 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,090 We, you know, what we're looking for is, 201 00:11:01,090 --> 00:11:05,140 making sure that we're providing the right color pallet 202 00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:09,990 and guidance to how to use those colors to the product team. 203 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:13,010 So, that if your developing a website 204 00:11:13,010 --> 00:11:14,860 or a mobile app or something, 205 00:11:14,860 --> 00:11:16,640 that they're being used in a way 206 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,400 that produces enough contrast for people 207 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,360 with particularly with long vision to be able to use. 208 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,690 And they said, "that's great! 209 00:11:24,690 --> 00:11:26,660 "You know, one of the biggest frustrations we have 210 00:11:26,660 --> 00:11:29,620 "is people don't follow the guidance we give 'em." 211 00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:33,050 They have a vision for how they want the color to be used 212 00:11:33,050 --> 00:11:35,870 to improve engagement and, 213 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:38,590 you know, emotional connectiveness 214 00:11:38,590 --> 00:11:41,000 and all these kind of qualitative things, 215 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,040 but people, they're like, 216 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,680 "well, you know, we'll just use colors 217 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:44,850 "however we want to use it." 218 00:11:44,850 --> 00:11:48,250 And they just kind of do a slab of this and a dab of that. 219 00:11:48,250 --> 00:11:51,790 And so what we've found is a great partnership is 220 00:11:51,790 --> 00:11:55,680 they own the brand standards of what the colors were 221 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,320 and how they should be used, 222 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,660 but they have no real enforcement mechanism to say, 223 00:11:59,660 --> 00:12:01,680 "you really have to use this", 224 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:06,190 they just said, basically, we want you to use this. 225 00:12:06,190 --> 00:12:07,560 But we had sort of the opposite, 226 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,930 which is we didn't have the platform 227 00:12:09,930 --> 00:12:13,190 in terms of owning those standards. 228 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:15,220 But we had the need to say, 229 00:12:15,220 --> 00:12:20,280 "you need to use these in the correct way." 230 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,030 So we tweaked, worked with them to tweak a couple colors. 231 00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:25,320 - How would that be different, 232 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,730 well it's from the ADA. 233 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:31,340 I mean, does the ADA mandate, 234 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,800 have anything to do with the way, 235 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,070 I mean the web was, let's say, made it after that. 236 00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:42,670 - Yes, ADA was first written, first pass. 237 00:12:42,670 --> 00:12:46,680 - So I'm not an attorney, and I won't play one on TV. 238 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,690 (laughing) 239 00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:51,700 But from a technical stand point, 240 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:57,420 there are no standards for web accessibility under the ADA. 241 00:12:57,420 --> 00:13:01,920 The ADA's really focused on ensuring 242 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,870 equal access to goods and services. 243 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:11,290 And, so really what it's saying is, 244 00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:14,650 you know, in providing goods and services 245 00:13:14,650 --> 00:13:16,370 you can't discriminate and you need to 246 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:19,230 effectively communicate with your customers. 247 00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:23,110 Now, you know, this is still, you know, 248 00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:26,460 different courts have ruled different ways 249 00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:28,500 about whether or not you need, 250 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:32,050 the website needs a connection to a physical place 251 00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:33,580 or it could be just stand alone 252 00:13:33,580 --> 00:13:36,590 because it's goods and services offering the public. 253 00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:41,860 And you know, the viewers can go and research that. 254 00:13:41,860 --> 00:13:44,610 But to answer your questions is, 255 00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:49,120 there really is no direct answer to your question. 256 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,410 From what we've chosen to do in the absence of any 257 00:13:52,410 --> 00:13:58,400 standards around website accessibility, 258 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,520 259 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,490 it's very clear what most people 260 00:14:03,490 --> 00:14:05,570 if not all people are using and that's 261 00:14:05,570 --> 00:14:09,750 the web content accessibility guidelines from the W3C. 262 00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:12,990 Specifically double A which is sort of 263 00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:15,960 the next tier up in terms of quality 264 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,250 from the basic single A. 265 00:14:18,250 --> 00:14:19,250 That is-- 266 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:20,690 - So if you people are developing 267 00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:23,990 what they'd use and understand accessibility, 268 00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:26,170 you know exactly what Aaron's talking about. 269 00:14:26,170 --> 00:14:30,290 If not, there are a number of web standards out there 270 00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:34,280 that people should follow to make it 271 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,090 as accessible as possible for people. 272 00:14:38,090 --> 00:14:41,800 I understand 273 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,850 AT&T was pretty much proactive in developing, 274 00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:48,790 CATO and developing this process 275 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:53,140 to make all their products and services accessible. 276 00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:57,500 And in fact, let's see, I wrote it down here somewhere, 277 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,740 the Global Initiative for Inclusive Information 278 00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:03,140 and Communication Technologies, 279 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:08,300 praised AT&T for CATO, calling it an industry model. 280 00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:12,100 An industry model's pretty strong term. 281 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:15,380 I mean, there's, are there any other businesses 282 00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:18,050 doing what AT&T does? 283 00:15:18,050 --> 00:15:21,990 - I think there's been some big companies out there 284 00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:25,820 that have had a long standing commitment to accessibility. 285 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:29,240 And you know, what I've told people 286 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,810 is that any accessibility initiative is 287 00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:35,360 going to have to be tailored to that company. 288 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,100 So, I don't know that any company does it quite like us, 289 00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,020 'cause we're, you know, 290 00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:44,070 there's unique circumstances within AT&T. 291 00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:47,750 But you know, I think IBM and Microsoft 292 00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:49,480 as companies that have had 293 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,520 significant commitments in the past 294 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,630 and continue around accessibility. 295 00:15:55,630 --> 00:15:57,850 I think the important thing to get across 296 00:15:57,850 --> 00:16:00,900 is that it's not, sort of, this isn't something 297 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:02,680 where you have to be a big company 298 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,680 to know how to do these things. 299 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,730 The information is out there, 300 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:12,160 and so whether you are a company of four people 301 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:17,140 or 400,000 or some size in between, 302 00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:20,660 to learn how the technology you're building 303 00:16:20,660 --> 00:16:23,190 in the first place, 304 00:16:23,190 --> 00:16:26,260 and how you make that accessible is available 305 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:27,930 and pretty much most of it's free. 306 00:16:27,930 --> 00:16:30,440 Certainly websites and all the labs are 307 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,110 very common in this day and age for new technologies. 308 00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:41,310 And you know, the W3C of the world wide web consortiums, 309 00:16:41,310 --> 00:16:44,160 there the ones that standardized what HTML is. 310 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,530 So what the lab really, how it operates, 311 00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:50,700 they also say this is how you make websites accessible. 312 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,680 So it's part and parcel. 313 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,960 The makers of the mobile platforms, 314 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,320 Apple and Google with Android, 315 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,780 they have guidelines on how you make their app, 316 00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:06,130 apps on their platforms, accessible. 317 00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:08,470 And it's all available. 318 00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:12,240 A lot of it comes down to knowing, 319 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,450 being skillful with how you develop an app, 320 00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:18,160 a website, or technology generally. 321 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,060 And doing so in a quality way. 322 00:17:21,060 --> 00:17:25,080 And not, sort of taking shortcuts. 323 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,200 Because a lot of times those shortcuts 324 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,820 may not be apparent until you connect 325 00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:31,600 assistive technology to it. 326 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,470 Or you start interacting with that technology 327 00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:38,230 in a way that the developer does not, 328 00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:40,990 but that people with disabilities do. 329 00:17:40,990 --> 00:17:45,240 So using, you know, navigating a web page through your ears, 330 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,190 instead of your eyes. 331 00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:50,150 - Well, let's say, how about this instance. 332 00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:54,740 I've got a small business, but I've got ambition. 333 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:56,690 So I think I'll become a medium, 334 00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:58,740 or even a large business someday. 335 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,680 And, AT&T provides services for me, 336 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,060 now, being the smart guy that I am, 337 00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:08,290 I want reach as many consumers as possible. 338 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:11,010 So I want to make sure my product and services 339 00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:15,400 are accessible to people with disabilities. 340 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,450 Would I go, would I look up, 341 00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:21,410 or how would I go about making sure 342 00:18:21,410 --> 00:18:24,300 my products and services are accessible? 343 00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:29,240 Since AT&T is my choice to provide services, 344 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,840 would I contact CATO or would I look to outside services? 345 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,620 - So if you are a medium or large business, 346 00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:38,760 generally you're going to interact with AT&T 347 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,550 through an account executive. 348 00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:45,520 Somebody that manages you as a customer. 349 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,010 And so they're going to be your point of contact 350 00:18:48,010 --> 00:18:50,830 for any questions you might have, 351 00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:53,020 whether it's just a plain old billing issue 352 00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:55,550 all the way up through, you know, is this an accessibility. 353 00:18:55,550 --> 00:18:57,660 And you'll probably work with a sales team 354 00:18:57,660 --> 00:19:00,410 if you know, you're thinking about becoming a AT&T customer. 355 00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:03,420 And I would encourage prospective businesses 356 00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:06,090 or existing businesses, to ask about, you know, 357 00:19:06,090 --> 00:19:08,110 how is this accessible? 358 00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:09,480 And the better questions you ask, 359 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,140 the better answers you should get. 360 00:19:12,140 --> 00:19:15,260 You know, certainly if you are in the government 361 00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:19,330 asking about, you know, is this section 508 compliant? 362 00:19:19,330 --> 00:19:21,730 It would be a perfectly great question to ask. 363 00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:24,880 - IF you're section 508 refers to section 508 364 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,110 of the rehabilitation act, 365 00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:30,820 which requires all the government contractors 366 00:19:30,820 --> 00:19:34,450 to provide accessible internet services, 367 00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:35,530 is that where you--? 368 00:19:35,530 --> 00:19:38,120 - Well, requires the government itself, 369 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,460 so section 508 implies the federal government, 370 00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:43,720 and most state governments, including Texas, 371 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,500 have laws that say that they 372 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:52,200 have to buy accessible technology. 373 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,370 Now there, there's some caveats and nuances of that, 374 00:19:56,370 --> 00:19:59,320 and you know, we could talk about it more depth. 375 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,340 But basically that's saying, when you buy, 376 00:20:01,340 --> 00:20:02,850 when you contract out for a company 377 00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:04,710 to build a website or provide your 378 00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:06,790 telephone service to your offices, 379 00:20:06,790 --> 00:20:09,130 that those need to be accessible. 380 00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:12,330 And section 508 has specific standards 381 00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:16,030 that says what accessible means in the context 382 00:20:16,030 --> 00:20:18,290 of telecommunications equipment 383 00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:22,280 versus websites, versus stand alone 384 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,050 hardware and those sorts of things. 385 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:28,430 And those standards are written to be updated here, 386 00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:30,070 and it's been approved and will go into effect next year. 387 00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:34,470 So, that's one of the things that CATO does, 388 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:37,490 since we have most, not all of the accessibility 389 00:20:37,490 --> 00:20:43,470 expertise in the company that's dedicated to accessibility. 390 00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:46,460 We look at that and we update the guidance we provide 391 00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:49,280 to project teams that are developing 392 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,020 our products and services 393 00:20:51,020 --> 00:20:53,570 and saying here's what these changes mean for you, 394 00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:56,210 and specifically what you need to do 395 00:20:56,210 --> 00:21:00,440 as a project team as your developing technology. 396 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,640 And to make sure that you're, you know, 397 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,370 certainly first and foremost compliant with the law, 398 00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:08,960 but more than that to make sure 399 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,690 that products and services are accessible too, 400 00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:16,150 as well, as usable by our customers with disabilities. 401 00:21:16,150 --> 00:21:19,000 - How does anyone keep up with that? 402 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,520 I've even take notes, it changes so quickly, 403 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,150 I mean particularly in the area of apps. 404 00:21:26,150 --> 00:21:29,510 There's a new app coming out, I don't know how often, 405 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:32,020 but I know it's got to be frequent. 406 00:21:32,020 --> 00:21:33,260 (laughing) 407 00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:35,680 Maybe every day, maybe every couple hours. 408 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,120 - That said, I mean we, in a given year, 409 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:43,200 we're probably looking 8-10,000 projects that we review 410 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,690 but not all those, a large fraction of those 411 00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:49,940 don't require accessibility or any changes 412 00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:51,950 to make them accessible. 413 00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:55,060 But, it's a large scale. 414 00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:57,840 And that's been our biggest challenge really is the scale. 415 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,340 How do you do this, because we couldn't hire enough 416 00:22:01,340 --> 00:22:03,370 accessibility experts to assign 417 00:22:03,370 --> 00:22:06,720 one to every project that needs it. 418 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,990 So we've structured more around 419 00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:13,840 how do we make sure that project teams 420 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:19,670 know where to get help and have help when they need it 421 00:22:19,670 --> 00:22:21,780 in a way that makes sense to them. 422 00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:26,580 And so it's about providing them good training resources, 423 00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:30,660 clear standards on if you are doing, you know, 424 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:33,220 particular technology X that you know 425 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:36,210 exactly what you need to do to make that accessible. 426 00:22:36,210 --> 00:22:39,120 And that there are people, you know, real human beings 427 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,090 who understand how to make things accessible, 428 00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:46,150 available to talk to when things get a little confusing. 429 00:22:46,150 --> 00:22:48,200 But that's another one of our roles 430 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,490 is to make sure that we are paying attention 431 00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:53,700 to where the technology's going and where, 432 00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:56,930 not only the technology in the industry is going as a whole, 433 00:22:56,930 --> 00:23:00,340 but how AT&T is using that technology, 434 00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:04,800 our AT&T technology, technology AT&T is developing. 435 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,700 So we need to be very aware of what's going on 436 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:11,350 across the company and figure out 437 00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:14,380 how we can best make sure that there's not a gap 438 00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:18,100 between the technology and the accessibility solutions. 439 00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:20,540 - So in addition to following 440 00:23:20,540 --> 00:23:23,080 where other companies are going 441 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,210 you're actually also leading the way 442 00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:26,610 in the, sort of, accessibility-- 443 00:23:26,610 --> 00:23:27,450 - Oh definitely. 444 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:29,210 I think the best example of that, actually, 445 00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:31,720 is sort of like breaking news. 446 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:32,550 (laughing) 447 00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:37,450 On Friday last week, so December 1st, 448 00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:40,610 we launched a service called Real Time Text. 449 00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:42,200 - Oh, I read about that! 450 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,300 As a matter of fact. 451 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:46,740 - So Real Time Text is a solution 452 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:50,010 for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing, 453 00:23:50,010 --> 00:23:53,510 have speech disabilities or are deaf-blind, 454 00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:56,240 to use a telephone network. 455 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,140 To make and receive calls. 456 00:23:59,140 --> 00:24:02,590 For the last 50 years, 457 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:04,130 the only way they could do that 458 00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:07,270 is through using TTY devices. 459 00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:12,860 And these are keyboards that you can connect to a phone. 460 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:18,240 And the TTY's make tones on the regular telephone lines, 461 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,780 so nothing special has to be 462 00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:23,020 adapted or changed or installed. 463 00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:25,130 And if there's another TTY at the other end, 464 00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:29,080 they hear those tones come through the voice line 465 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,170 just as you would hear a human voice, 466 00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:34,860 and they decode that back to text. 467 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:37,040 And it's a, 468 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,910 in the 60s it was actually, you know, 469 00:24:39,910 --> 00:24:43,080 I think an extraordinary engineering solution 470 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,160 to how do you make the telephone work, 471 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,650 accessible to individuals who are deaf and have 472 00:24:49,650 --> 00:24:53,160 hearing disabilities or speech disabilities or both. 473 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,900 But where technology's going, it's just not keeping up. 474 00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:58,420 It's antiquated analog technology. 475 00:24:58,420 --> 00:25:02,130 But, you could have your latest iPhone 10, 476 00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:04,760 Samsung Galaxy S, whatever, 477 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,720 or any other smart phone and prior to Friday, 478 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,030 the way somebody who is deaf would need, 479 00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:14,510 if they needed to call 911 for instance, 480 00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:16,610 or even if they just wanted to call their mom, 481 00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:19,020 they would have to connect, you know, 482 00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:23,170 a TTY to their smartphone. 483 00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:25,280 And have a conversation when they're on their TTY 484 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,500 or through relay services. 485 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:30,340 So, Real Time Text takes the same principle, 486 00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:35,400 which is the ability to communicate visually through text, 487 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,150 but modernized that. 488 00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:38,760 So it's using internet protocol 489 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,110 it's using the same underlying network framework 490 00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:45,390 that we use for providing HD voice calls. 491 00:25:45,390 --> 00:25:49,140 So it is not really a separate solution, 492 00:25:49,140 --> 00:25:51,860 it's a solution built in. 493 00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:54,210 - Well let's say someone, 494 00:25:54,210 --> 00:25:59,750 who is deaf or hard of hearing wants to contact me, 495 00:25:59,750 --> 00:26:05,740 they would use this Real Time Text app, is it? 496 00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:08,360 497 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:14,950 And how would that be different, say then just, 498 00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:20,810 well I suppose, yeah, then just texting me? 499 00:26:20,810 --> 00:26:23,410 - Yeah, so I think first, 500 00:26:23,410 --> 00:26:27,180 you know let's assume that you do have a smartphone 501 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:29,020 in this case and wanted to contact you. 502 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:33,950 So today, what that deaf person would have to do, 503 00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:38,530 is they'd have to connect their TTY to their smartphone. 504 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:40,790 And unless you had a TTY yourself, 505 00:26:40,790 --> 00:26:44,170 which is a $200 or $300 machine that's big and bulky 506 00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:46,930 and looks like an old type writer, so, 507 00:26:46,930 --> 00:26:47,900 probably not. 508 00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:49,200 - No, no, definitely not. 509 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,130 (laughing) 510 00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:53,350 - So they're going to call 711 for relay services, 511 00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:55,870 and they would have a TTY conversation 512 00:26:55,870 --> 00:26:57,470 with the relay operator, 513 00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:00,120 and that relay operator would call you, 514 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,810 and they'd be sort of the interpreter. 515 00:27:02,810 --> 00:27:05,970 Now, there are other types of relay services out there. 516 00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:08,020 There's video relay service that allow that deaf person 517 00:27:08,020 --> 00:27:11,610 to communicate in sign language with the relay operator. 518 00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:14,530 IP relay that allows through an internet chat 519 00:27:14,530 --> 00:27:15,720 with that relay operator. 520 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,660 But in all cases, they are communicating 521 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:21,200 with the relay operator, 522 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,380 who's making a traditional phone call to you and 523 00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:28,070 interpreting and being intermediary for that conversation. 524 00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:31,850 Today, with Real Time Text, if you both install 525 00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:33,530 the Real Time Text app, 526 00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:39,090 AT&T launched last week, on your phones, 527 00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:41,600 the deaf person could call your phone number, 528 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,820 your regular cell phone number, 529 00:27:43,820 --> 00:27:45,590 and they would, when they set up the call, 530 00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:50,280 saying whether or not they want voice or text or both. 531 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,770 So maybe they just say I'm going to, 532 00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:57,440 I'm going to make a voice and a text call. 533 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,350 The call would come into your phone 534 00:27:59,350 --> 00:28:03,850 and it would say that deaf persons caller ID information 535 00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:07,290 from your address book, just like a regular cellphone call, 536 00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:08,700 but it would also say, do you want to answer 537 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,870 with voice by itself, or by voice and text? 538 00:28:11,870 --> 00:28:13,840 And of course you know this person, 539 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,830 they're offering text also, 540 00:28:16,830 --> 00:28:19,560 'cause they're not going to be able to use their voice. 541 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,800 And you would answer, 542 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,110 and in addition to having an audio channel, 543 00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:25,110 or traditional voice call there, 544 00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:28,750 you would have the ability to 545 00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:30,530 have a Real Time Text conversation. 546 00:28:30,530 --> 00:28:33,640 And that's a little different then like text messaging. 547 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,880 So text messaging you compose the entire message, 548 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,100 you hit send, and it goes off to them, 549 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,620 and they might get it in five seconds or five minutes, 550 00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:42,650 - You know. - Oh yeah, yeah. 551 00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:46,960 - But with Real Time Text, it took the best parts of TTY, 552 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,120 which is as you type, the other person on the other end 553 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,120 sees what you're typing. 554 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,780 And the best example that I've used 555 00:28:55,780 --> 00:28:58,750 to sort of illustrate why that might be important, 556 00:28:58,750 --> 00:29:02,780 is think about if you're calling 911 for an emergency 557 00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:07,680 and you know, you can do it in many parts of the country, 558 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,360 not all yet, unfortunately, 559 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,040 but you can send a text message to 911, 560 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,880 but let's say you started typing, 561 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,970 "I'm having chest P--", and you stop, 562 00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:22,120 because you were overcome by a heart attack at that point. 563 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,160 If you never hit send, 564 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,670 nobody ever knows that you needed help. 565 00:29:25,670 --> 00:29:27,430 Because that message never went through, 566 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:28,310 you never hit send. 567 00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:29,140 - Oh yeah, yeah. 568 00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:32,780 - With Real Time Text, you type, "I'm having chest P--", 569 00:29:32,780 --> 00:29:35,460 that part of the message comes through. 570 00:29:35,460 --> 00:29:38,170 A 911 operators going to know what that means, 571 00:29:38,170 --> 00:29:40,450 and the fact that you've stopped typing 572 00:29:40,450 --> 00:29:43,480 also is very helpful for them to diagnose 573 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,800 the severity of your situation, right? 574 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:47,850 - Okay, yeah. 575 00:29:47,850 --> 00:29:50,060 - So this is, when we say Real Time Text, 576 00:29:50,060 --> 00:29:53,080 we mean real time, as you type that letter 577 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,750 or that character will be there. 578 00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:58,940 Real Time Text is better than TTY. 579 00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:01,860 With TTY it was like a walkie talkie conversation. 580 00:30:01,860 --> 00:30:03,410 Only one person in the conversation 581 00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:05,820 could type at the same time. 582 00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:07,950 So you had do the opposite, 583 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:10,030 instead of saying, you know, "over", 584 00:30:10,030 --> 00:30:12,230 like in a walkie talkie, you would say, "GA", 585 00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:16,330 type "GA", meaning "go ahead". 586 00:30:16,330 --> 00:30:19,860 Real Time Text can use basically all the characters 587 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:24,010 on your phones keyboard, so upper case, lower case, 588 00:30:24,010 --> 00:30:26,200 those are sort of boring. 589 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,030 But you know, you can use symbols from, you know, 590 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:31,700 - Shift keys - Emojis? 591 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:34,390 - Emojis we're working on, that's an extended character set. 592 00:30:34,390 --> 00:30:37,390 But pretty much anything you'd have a normal conversation, 593 00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:42,650 maybe not with a millennial, but a conversation with-- 594 00:30:42,650 --> 00:30:47,380 With TTY's, everything was in capital letters. 595 00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:48,680 'Cause they didn't have-- 596 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,680 - Enough character - Oh, so you-- 597 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,070 - Set to do upper and lower case. 598 00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:56,870 You got uppercase characters, you got the numbers, 599 00:30:56,870 --> 00:31:00,200 and you got maybe about half a dozen characters. 600 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,700 So, like for instance you couldn't type an email address, 601 00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:04,610 'cause there was no "@" sign. 602 00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:05,570 - Oh, wow! 603 00:31:05,570 --> 00:31:07,600 I hadn't thought of that. 604 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,420 - So it was, an older character set 605 00:31:10,420 --> 00:31:13,410 based on teletype machines from 100 years ago. 606 00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:17,580 So, as I said, in the 60s, that was a whole lot better 607 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:21,070 than what the deaf community had up until then. 608 00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:24,360 - I can see someone today seeing all capital letters, 609 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,400 and saying, "quit yelling at me!" 610 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,980 - Exactly. 611 00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:30,230 And so Real Time Text, 612 00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:32,650 both people can type at the same time, 613 00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:35,540 you get sort of these characters set. 614 00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:40,610 It is really, you know, it's a modern day way, 615 00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:43,100 of doing functionally, what TTY's used to do, 616 00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:45,730 which is allow a real time conversation 617 00:31:45,730 --> 00:31:50,880 back and forth, turn taking, like a voice call. 618 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,490 But TTY had some of these technical limitations. 619 00:31:55,490 --> 00:31:58,830 And we think with Real Time Text, those have largely, 620 00:31:58,830 --> 00:32:01,300 we've taken the good things from Real Time Text, 621 00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:03,030 and we've taken the good things from modern 622 00:32:03,030 --> 00:32:08,260 internet protocol type technologies and blended them. 623 00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:11,490 We've been, the disability community, 624 00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:13,670 the deaf community in particular has been 625 00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:15,300 very supportive our efforts, 626 00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:16,600 because its been about four years 627 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,330 since we originally said we need to make this happen 628 00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:21,570 before it actually happened. 629 00:32:21,570 --> 00:32:24,820 And that's because there's a lot of moving parts to that, 630 00:32:24,820 --> 00:32:27,180 including we had to literally get the law changed, 631 00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:30,250 allow us to launch Real Time Text. 632 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:31,620 - Oh really? Wow. 633 00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:35,760 Well, getting the law to change is an act of congress. 634 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,600 (laughing) 635 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,680 - Well, fortunately in this case, 636 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,410 it wasn't an act of congress needed. 637 00:32:40,410 --> 00:32:43,840 We just needed the FCC to update their rules, 638 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,270 and when we explained what we wanted to do 639 00:32:46,270 --> 00:32:47,880 and why everyone wanted to do it, 640 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,750 and what Real Time Text was, 641 00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:51,900 and what we thought the benefit was, 642 00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:56,040 and that the deaf community in particular was on our side, 643 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,340 it took a while, but we, you know, 644 00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:03,440 working with a lot of partners 645 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,320 and all the support from the FCC staff, 646 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,790 were able to get that done last year, so. 647 00:33:08,790 --> 00:33:11,600 - Well speaking of working with folks, 648 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,900 I first met you years ago, at tech club, 649 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:19,200 and then I saw you recently at Lex Frieden Awards Banquet, 650 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,380 and in your speech you mention the importance 651 00:33:22,380 --> 00:33:25,500 of involving people with disabilities. 652 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,450 I know you've always been active in the community. 653 00:33:28,450 --> 00:33:30,660 For the Real Time Text, I was just curious, 654 00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:33,210 is that something AT&T said, you know, 655 00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:36,780 we got to make this happen, or were customers calling 656 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:39,260 and saying we need a better way, 657 00:33:39,260 --> 00:33:42,100 or how did that come to a-- 658 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:44,350 - It was really a combination. 659 00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:47,060 So part of it was, we didn't invent 660 00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:48,600 Real Time Text technology. 661 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,500 It existed before 2013, when we first identified it 662 00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:55,820 being something we needed to move the company toward. 663 00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:59,270 So there had been a lot of work prior to that 664 00:33:59,270 --> 00:34:01,550 on identifying that. 665 00:34:01,550 --> 00:34:05,260 Some in academia, so for instance, Gregg Vanderheiden, 666 00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:07,590 and the Trace Research Center 667 00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:11,310 at the University of Wisconsin, 668 00:34:11,310 --> 00:34:14,830 Christian Vogler at Gallaudet University 669 00:34:14,830 --> 00:34:19,050 was instrumental in helping us understand Real Time Text, 670 00:34:19,050 --> 00:34:21,220 and what it can do and the benefits 671 00:34:21,220 --> 00:34:24,890 to the disability community for that. 672 00:34:24,890 --> 00:34:30,060 The standards perspective, so I mentioned HD voice, 673 00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:33,210 so as we've built out a new voice network 674 00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:35,820 to support things like HD voice 675 00:34:35,820 --> 00:34:38,810 and video call and these other types of things. 676 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:40,590 It's based on international standards 677 00:34:40,590 --> 00:34:43,260 for how mobile services operate. 678 00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:45,710 Well, embedded in those standards already, 679 00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:47,630 somebody had already done the leg work, 680 00:34:47,630 --> 00:34:51,160 saying, hey, you know, TTY is not supported on this network, 681 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,580 but there is a service called Global Text Telephony, 682 00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:58,410 but they call it GTT, that is and the appointed 683 00:34:58,410 --> 00:35:01,050 to standards that existed within 684 00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:04,590 the telecommunication industry that define that. 685 00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:10,500 And then even in the government circles, 686 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,120 in 2010 a law was passed called the 687 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,620 Communications and Video Accessibility Act. 688 00:35:16,620 --> 00:35:18,860 And one of the things it required the FCC to do, 689 00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:21,260 is to have a advisory commission 690 00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:24,330 and one of the reports they generated 691 00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:26,890 was how you transition from TTY 692 00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:29,850 to next generation services, so. 693 00:35:29,850 --> 00:35:30,970 - Oh. 694 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:33,500 - We had a lot to build on, 695 00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:39,270 standing on the shoulder of giants, as Newton said. 696 00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:41,960 To kind of learn. 697 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,280 But we also made sure that we were engaging 698 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,810 with the disability community 699 00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:50,770 to understand that this wasn't just in theory, 700 00:35:50,770 --> 00:35:54,080 this wasn't just kind of an academic exercise 701 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,300 or something that was not really wanted. 702 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,760 So I mentioned Christian Vogler at Gallaudet 703 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,440 as being somebody we worked with. 704 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,780 AT&T for over 10 years now has had an advisory panel 705 00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:11,960 and acts as an agent. 706 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840 And so we have, for instance, a member on there 707 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,750 from the deaf community Claude Stout from TDI, 708 00:36:18,750 --> 00:36:21,430 and you know, we had brought this up 709 00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:24,530 to the panel generally, and specifically Claude 710 00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:25,790 to get feedback on it. 711 00:36:25,790 --> 00:36:27,520 So every time we mention that, 712 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,800 we wanted to move past TTY to, 713 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:38,140 to a modern technology that support the communication needs. 714 00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:41,480 In this fashion, we got a positive response. 715 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,740 So we knew we were moving forward. 716 00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:46,260 We did some public demonstrations 717 00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:50,360 of what Real Time Text could be to other service providers. 718 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,500 To managers of 911 call centers, 719 00:36:55,500 --> 00:37:01,220 to regulatory agencies, the FCC, the Department of Justice, 720 00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:04,610 into the disability community, and they were, again, 721 00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:09,140 very positive about what this could do. 722 00:37:09,140 --> 00:37:12,030 And changing how are network works, 723 00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:14,890 while still making sure everybody's calls go through 724 00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:16,640 and text messages and what not, 725 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,230 it's been a lot of planning and development, 726 00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:21,600 This was an off the shelf solution we could 727 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,960 go to a vendor, and saying, hey can we buy, 728 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,250 you know, a CD with Real Time Text on it, and 729 00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:29,250 - Install it - Right, right. 730 00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:30,480 - In the network. 731 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,330 I mean, we support over 100 million customers 732 00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:35,150 on our voice network, so. 733 00:37:35,150 --> 00:37:36,830 - Did you hear that folks? 734 00:37:36,830 --> 00:37:40,750 AT&T does tons of accessibility stuff out there. 735 00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:43,080 You don't hear about it every day. 736 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,290 But it's all going on behind the scenes. 737 00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:48,370 Which reminds me, Aaron, 738 00:37:48,370 --> 00:37:50,920 not a whole lot of people know this, 739 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,790 but you've got 15 patents to your name, is that right? 740 00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:56,130 - I'm up to 30, now. 741 00:37:56,130 --> 00:37:57,140 - 30? 742 00:37:57,140 --> 00:37:58,140 - 30. 743 00:37:58,140 --> 00:38:01,030 - See, now, our executive committee wanted to ask you, 744 00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:02,460 why stop at 15? 745 00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:03,460 (laughing) 746 00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:07,070 But you're up to 30, that's old information I read! 747 00:38:07,070 --> 00:38:09,220 My god, 30 patents! 748 00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:12,070 - AT&T is very supportive of that. 749 00:38:12,070 --> 00:38:16,360 Not all those patents are in accessibility 750 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,790 but most of our revolve around, 751 00:38:19,790 --> 00:38:24,720 my time either in accessibility team 752 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,750 or before that I worked in AT&T labs 753 00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:30,260 in what we call our Human Factors Engineering group, 754 00:38:30,260 --> 00:38:34,090 so a lot of the work I did there was how do you design 755 00:38:34,090 --> 00:38:35,890 ways for customers to interact 756 00:38:35,890 --> 00:38:38,570 with our products and services, 757 00:38:38,570 --> 00:38:40,720 which is a lot of inventing things. 758 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,120 So, part of that was also putting on 759 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,700 an accessibility act, how do you make technology 760 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,570 easy to use for all of our customers? 761 00:38:50,570 --> 00:38:53,390 Certainly almost 20% of that, those customers, 762 00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:54,970 are customers with disabilities. 763 00:38:54,970 --> 00:38:56,620 And that plays a factor. 764 00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:57,790 And so. 765 00:38:57,790 --> 00:39:01,710 - 20% of the billions of people in the world, 766 00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:03,250 it's a lot of people. 767 00:39:03,250 --> 00:39:04,760 - It is. 768 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,950 And obviously disabilities is a diverse, 769 00:39:07,950 --> 00:39:10,400 to sort of lump everybody and say 770 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,720 it's uniform is a misnomer. 771 00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:16,480 The one thing I think that helps 772 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,760 when looking at accessibility, 773 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,300 it really comes from the same training 774 00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:25,950 have looking at how to make products and services usable, 775 00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:30,660 is rather than focusing on what the technology can do, 776 00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:35,070 to also, not in lieu of, but to also consider 777 00:39:35,070 --> 00:39:38,070 that a person that has to use that, 778 00:39:38,070 --> 00:39:39,720 and if they can't accomplish something 779 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,920 productive with that technology, 780 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,980 it doesn't matter how cool and whiz bang 781 00:39:44,980 --> 00:39:47,740 and all the features that technology has. 782 00:39:47,740 --> 00:39:49,740 A product of service we offer, 783 00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:55,250 if a person can't make use out of it, it's also not good. 784 00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:58,520 So it's not that the user experience trumps the technology, 785 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,680 or the technology trumps the user experience. 786 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,490 It's they've got to work together 787 00:40:02,490 --> 00:40:03,960 to get to a productive result. 788 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,920 And making sure folks that sort of live and breath 789 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,330 the technology understand that at the end of the day 790 00:40:13,330 --> 00:40:17,550 that a person, not them, has to use it. 791 00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:21,070 And it's not even, its not them, different, 792 00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:24,830 it's they don't spend 40, 50 hours a week thinking about 793 00:40:24,830 --> 00:40:27,440 how that technology works. 794 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,190 And have probably gone to school 795 00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:31,610 and learned a lot of things and keep up to date 796 00:40:31,610 --> 00:40:33,850 through reading and so forth on that technology. 797 00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:37,210 You have somebody who spends 40 or 50 hours 798 00:40:37,210 --> 00:40:39,470 working on something else, 799 00:40:39,470 --> 00:40:42,070 and the product or service they buy from AT&T 800 00:40:42,070 --> 00:40:45,130 is something they want to be able to pick up and use 801 00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:49,210 and not think about a lot to accomplish what they want. 802 00:40:49,210 --> 00:40:52,440 But not invest hours and hours of time. 803 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,720 And once you sort of begin to understand the mindset that, 804 00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:59,870 you can either be the average customer 805 00:40:59,870 --> 00:41:04,440 or you can be the person AT&T pays money to to develop this. 806 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,160 But you can't be both at the same time. 807 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,110 If you can get people to wrap their minds around that, 808 00:41:11,110 --> 00:41:12,670 and when asked which one they want to be 809 00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:14,830 they want to be the one that AT&T pays a lot of money to. 810 00:41:14,830 --> 00:41:15,830 - Yeah, yeah, sure. 811 00:41:15,830 --> 00:41:17,630 - To develop that technology, 812 00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:21,120 then you sort of have, begin to have this humility, 813 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,550 that says, okay maybe I don't have all the answers 814 00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:25,920 on how customers will use this. 815 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,720 Customers with and without disabilities. 816 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,330 And you begin to become open to this idea that 817 00:41:31,330 --> 00:41:36,200 you know, how is somebody going to use this? 818 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,220 Somebody not like me? 819 00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:41,260 And then the next step is to talk about 820 00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:44,300 well customers with disabilities use this technology 821 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:47,600 in a way you may not have ever seen or heard about. 822 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,950 And, getting that message across. 823 00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:54,170 So in addition to sort of preaching 824 00:41:54,170 --> 00:41:56,460 technical standards in training, 825 00:41:56,460 --> 00:42:00,440 one of the things we want to get across is this idea that, 826 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,660 how that customers with disabilities can use 827 00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:07,450 all of our products and services 828 00:42:07,450 --> 00:42:09,050 when they're made accessible. 829 00:42:09,050 --> 00:42:12,720 But only if you as a project team 830 00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:14,760 is developing a new product or service 831 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,910 or updating the existing one. 832 00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:21,590 Are aware of what they need and actually do that work. 833 00:42:21,590 --> 00:42:25,090 And you know, we've generally found that, 834 00:42:25,090 --> 00:42:27,250 I can't think of any product developer 835 00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:29,750 that we've ever talked to that purposely wanted 836 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:32,550 to leave people with disabilities out from what they build, 837 00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:36,190 but they don't know anything about accessibility. 838 00:42:36,190 --> 00:42:37,070 - Right. 839 00:42:37,070 --> 00:42:40,560 - And, to do a couple things. 840 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,810 One is to educate them, and find some time in their, 841 00:42:43,810 --> 00:42:46,480 their otherwise busy schedule to get them 842 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,660 to think about a new way of working with technology, 843 00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:52,080 not to replace their old ways 844 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,390 that they knew, but to add to that and 845 00:42:55,390 --> 00:42:58,340 to make sure they understand the importance of it. 846 00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:01,980 Not just from, you've got to do this, 847 00:43:01,980 --> 00:43:04,790 you know, that the accessibility office 848 00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:09,320 is coming and telling you you got to do it, but that, 849 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,000 that its' good for business, you know, 850 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,270 the 20% of customers we talked about. 851 00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:15,280 I like to-- 852 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,700 The other statistic I like to site 853 00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:19,120 is about 30% of the US households 854 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,530 have a member with a disability. 855 00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:23,100 - Somebody in the-- - 30% that's 856 00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:25,200 - That's a lot of households though. 857 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,200 - That's about one in three, right? 858 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,030 - Yeah, yeah, that's huge. 859 00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:29,890 - So can you imagine if you're living in a house 860 00:43:29,890 --> 00:43:31,870 with somebody with a disability, 861 00:43:31,870 --> 00:43:34,060 you're not going to just buy the inaccessible product 862 00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:36,450 and say to them, well, tough. 863 00:43:36,450 --> 00:43:38,320 Or, I'll do it for you. 864 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,610 You're going to say, we're going to buy the accessible one, 865 00:43:40,610 --> 00:43:44,570 and say did you, you know, you can participate 866 00:43:44,570 --> 00:43:47,380 in watching TV or using the internet, 867 00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:51,770 or phone service just like everybody else in the household. 868 00:43:51,770 --> 00:43:56,370 There's you know, obviously, it is the right thing to do, 869 00:43:56,370 --> 00:43:59,460 as a company, you know, we want to make sure 870 00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:02,310 that we're serving the needs of all our customers. 871 00:44:02,310 --> 00:44:05,230 And not saying we're picking some and not others. 872 00:44:05,230 --> 00:44:07,100 And then lastly, it really, 873 00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:11,750 accessibility really requires you to think more deeply 874 00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:14,840 about how you're building the technology. 875 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,500 And underlines the products and services 876 00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:19,230 and then putting together products and services well. 877 00:44:19,230 --> 00:44:20,780 As websites and mobile apps 878 00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:24,590 and things that kind of go along with the services we offer. 879 00:44:24,590 --> 00:44:26,190 Because you're thinking more deeply, 880 00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:27,920 it really spurs you to think more creatively 881 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,870 about the problem and solve for it. 882 00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:34,530 And so that innovation, you know, 883 00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:36,490 that's a lifeblood of a company 884 00:44:36,490 --> 00:44:39,200 that's in the technology industry, 885 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,540 and you know, in 2018 and has been and will continue to be. 886 00:44:42,540 --> 00:44:45,490 - This guy may know about innovation with 30 patents, 887 00:44:45,490 --> 00:44:49,100 so, Aaron, we've been speaking with Aaron Bangor, 888 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:51,870 the Lead Principle Technical Architect, 889 00:44:51,870 --> 00:44:53,070 is that the right title? 890 00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:54,600 - Yep, that's one of my, 891 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,170 - That's one of your titles. 892 00:44:56,170 --> 00:44:58,890 - Lead Accessibly Technology Architect 893 00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:03,310 as well as Director of Accessibility Solutions Engineering. 894 00:45:03,310 --> 00:45:04,200 - Super. 895 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,270 When you folks go to the Gene and Dave show webpage, 896 00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:13,770 look for this show on CATO, C-A-T-O, 897 00:45:13,770 --> 00:45:15,830 look for our summary page, 898 00:45:15,830 --> 00:45:19,370 and in there you'll see a link for Real Time Text. 899 00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:22,520 And some other information you may want to know about 900 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,240 the great work AT&T's been doing. 901 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:26,730 Aaron, thank you for having us. 902 00:45:26,730 --> 00:45:28,760 We appreciate it very much. 903 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:29,860 Take care. 904 00:45:29,860 --> 00:45:32,590 - Appreciate you coming by, and great talk with you. 905 00:45:32,590 --> 00:45:33,820 - Super. 906 00:45:33,820 --> 00:45:38,810 So long, folks! 907 00:45:38,810 --> 00:46:10,604 We appreciate it very much.